Football mod

[jesperrr]

Yesterday I met BM again and he launched his server with the intention of showing me diverse downloaded maps that he had collected. As he switched to that bball map or whatever it's called (a map where a basketball field and a handball field are included) we simply began to throw around with that handball until BM came up with the idea that mundas and/or karigaard could make a nice (let me call it) sports MOD out of this. I immediately agreed that this is an amazing idea and we began imagining how the MOD could look like after its finishing. We didn't go into the details yet. So first of all I'll explain some basic aspects of how me and BM imagined this potential MOD:

First thing is to build a rectangle field... just imagine a soccer field with all its lines (outlines, central line..) and goals at each side of the map (west;east). The whole field should be a no-killing zone to avoid people killing each other with the ball^^
The central point of the field will be the starting area where everything will return to after a goal has fallen.
2 teams will participate in this handball game with a varying possibility of people playing against each other (example: 6vs6 player game or other possibilities...). Each team has a goalkeeper of course.

A team has won the match after it made a certain "XX" amount of goals. In order to avoid the possibility that a player storms inside the door of the other team with the handball there should be a certain small room (like in soccer) which is ONLY accessible to a gatekeeper. Any other player regardless of what team shouldn't be allowed to step into the gatekeepers zone, one can only throw from behind this zone. Contrarily the same counts for the gatekeeper. It is not permitted for him to step over his small-sized zone. He can only throw the ball to another teammember.

Furthermore there should be a short timelimit (maybe 4-5 secs)for each player where he is allowed to have the ball in his hands. When the time is up for a player who is keeping the ball it will automatically drop onto the ground. The intention of this timelimit is to involve the whole team into the gaming process forcing a player to pass the handball to another player etc before the time equals zero,rather than to try solo attempts (example: first player has the ball: time is running for him; he passes to the second guy: time will then run for that man etc etc...).

Besides that the handball should have a certain mass. It shouldn't be possible to throw it as far as a lightly weighing handaxe to avoid goals from far distance. On the other hand however its mass shouldn't be so heavy as a dba logically.^^

In addition to that it could be added that a goal made by a team is not valid if a player has not passed the handball to at least
2 (or so) teammates before the goal was shot. Or a player should be forced to let the ball touch the ground at least one time before he can pass it to another guy etc... Or how about the team to begin the match... not sure yet... maybe just a random choice or so.

But I see I'm going inside the details already...

So guys what do you think about this as a MOD :-) Common I always liked some sports in rune hehe ;D

New ideas are always welcome

So if Mundas or Kari or somebody of those tech brains out there are willing to do such a MOD that would be really interesting.

[=[VnB]=BM*]

Besides that the handball should have a certain mass. It shouldn't be possible to throw it as far as a lightly weighing handaxe to avoid goals from far distance. On the other hand however its mass shouldn't be so heavy as a dba logically.

You can see a random head as an example. The throwing speed/height is correct and you can drop the ball when you holster your weapon, this makes it easy to make a short pass to another player. Also, you can block an head when it bounces on the ground. This makes the goalkeeper able to block the ball when it gets thrown on the floor and bounces to the goal.

In addition to that it could be added that a goal made by a team is not valid if a player has not passed the handball to at least
2 (or so) teammates before the goal was shot. Or a player should be forced to let the ball touch the ground at least one time before he can pass it to another guy etc...

I think these functions shouldn't be added, simply because the short timelimit already forces the player to pass the ball to another player and use teamplay (else it'll drop the ball). It'd be very gay if a team scores a goal and it doesn't count, we should avoid such things. I think functions like these will make it hard to understand plus it won't be fun anymore. Also, I think it's best to keep things as simple as possible so everyone can understand the game.

Or how about the team to begin the match... not sure yet... maybe just a random choice or so.

Idea how it is now: 1 keeper respawn for each team into the keepers only-zone (2 in total on the field) After each goal the players will respawn and another keeper gets randomly chosen. We still have to figure out what will happen if a keeper goes AFK or decides to let a ball pass or rejoin to avoid being the dumb keeper. Any suggestions appreciated.

I also think it's best when a team scores a goal the ball should respawn into the other teams keepers hands the next round. When the game starts for the first time a counter should start (like in that zombiemod), then everyone respawns and the ball drops on the middlecircle.... game is on.

You also forgot to mention the punch effect if I'm right. Each player has an invisible weapon in his hands (like the zombieclaw from that zombiemod) that does no damage or whatsoever. The only function it has is to punch the ball out of the enemies hands when you hit him, you can see this as defending. It shouldn't work for people in the same team.

The server should have autopickup enabled, so you don't have to use the pickup button in order to get the ball, the person that steps on the ball first gets it.

I've talked to mund about this, he has to look if it's possible or not. It wont get released very soon. I'd definitely host this on my server if this gets released, imagine playing this with 10 players or 12, would be awesome


EDIT:
Made a little drawing in paint to explain the restricted areas, I can understand it's a bit weird to understand. People can throw the ball to the goal from those white lines out of the restricted area, this will prevent people from walking the ball into the goal or throwing from a short distance. Making it challenging to score a goal. You shouldn't be allowed to throw the ball to your own goal.


(for the dumb people out there, click to enlarge)

I've also changed the subject of this topic Jesper, hope you don't mind

[=[VnB]=BM*]

After thinking some more about it, I think I might have found a solution for most of the problems. Don't know if this is possible or not.

Players get rewarded for good teamplay. Imagine it like this:
Correct pass to another teamplayer: 1 point
Score a goal: 2 points

This score shouldn't affect the teamscore, it's a personal score. If you have enough points, you won't get chosen as a keeper. A keeper can get points to stop balls and save your team, it will most likely help him the next round.

Capture a ball: 0.5 point? (Still have to decide and betatest what is fair)

This means players get rewarded for good teamplay, and if people start fucking up the game or play for themselves they will end up being the goalkeeper. I could even add a votingmutator on my server so people on the server can kick/ban people if someone is acting like a retard.

[jesperrr]

The throwing speed/height is correct and you can drop the ball when you holster your weapon, this makes it easy to make a short pass to another player.

Personally I think that the throwing speed of the handball from bball map is too fast, ppl can throw across almost the whole field easily. I think the weight of the ball should be made a bit heavier so that it cannot get thrown miles over the heads of all players and land near the enemy keeper. That wouldn't be so much in the sense of a teamplay.

But yes the holstering possibility is just a fine thing to do. I agree here.

Also, you can block an head when it bounces on the ground. This makes the goalkeeper able to block the ball when it gets thrown on the floor and bounces to the goal.

The server should have autopickup enabled, so you don't have to use the pickup button in order to get the ball, the person that steps on the ball first gets it.

Sure thing with the autopickup. A non-automatic pickupaction would simply take too long for a fluently game. How does autopickup work exactly?
I think after an object touches the ground for the first time it can automatically be picked up by any player/keeper although it would still be in the bouncing process. Ofc the keeper can block the high incoming balls but he doesn't even need to block the ball after it bounced on the ground for the first time. He can pickup the ball already after its first bouncing due to autopickup. Sounds even better!

I think these functions shouldn't be added, simply because the short timelimit already forces the player to pass the ball to another player and use teamplay (else it'll drop the ball).

Thinking twice about this I have to agree with you. Those detailled functions would make it even more complicated for mund to make such a mod and harder for players to comprehend. As you said, the timelimit stuff is just sufficient.

Idea how it is now: 1 keeper respawn for each team into the keepers only-zone (2 in total on the field) After each goal the players will respawn and another keeper gets randomly chosen.

Agreed. A randomly chosen keeper after each goal would keep the game more diversified and prevent a keeper from getting bored if he had to stand in the keepers zone during the whole match.

We still have to figure out what will happen if a keeper goes AFK or decides to let a ball pass or rejoin to avoid being the dumb keeper. Any suggestions appreciated.

There is nothing to be done against a keeper when he decides to let the ball pass into his own goal on purpose. The good point is that the keeper gets the blame from his team for his stupidity ;D and after each goal (as you stated before) keepers are anyway chosen again randomly anew.

Hmm concerning people that remain afk I have no idea yet.

People that try to avoid being the keeper by rejoining the game... hm still have to think about it...

I also think it's best when a team scores a goal the ball should respawn into the other teams keepers hands the next round. When the game starts for the first time a counter should start (like in that zombiemod), then everyone respawns and the ball drops on the middlecircle.... game is on.

There are many possibilities... But I think I like your idea ;D

You also forgot to mention the punch effect if I'm right. Each player has an invisible weapon in his hands (like the zombieclaw from that zombiemod) that does no damage or whatsoever. The only function it has is to punch the ball out of someone his hands, you can see this as defending. It shouldn't work for people in the same team.

Oh yes, I have forgotten to mention this. Good that you say it here. I fully agree with this statement.

I've talked to mund about this, he has to look if it's possible or not. It wont get released very soon. I'd definitely host this on my server if this gets released, imagine playing this with 10 players or 12, would be awesome

;D Hell yea^^ Hope mund will consider it as possible^^

People can throw the ball to the goal from those white lines out of the restricted area, this will prevent people from walking the ball into the goal or throwing from a short distance.

Stated this already in my first post. But good that you made a paint drawing to give the others a first impression of it.

You shouldn't be allowed to throw the ball to your own goal.

Ah yes. Good point. I actually wanted to mention it also in my first post but forgot to do so...

There is one point that is also important to talk about. How about the the sidelines. If a player throws the ball across (north/south) sideline the other team should get the handball and begin with the throw-in. During that throw-in action the enemy team is not allowed to step over the outline from where the ball will be threwn into the field again...

I've also changed the subject of this topic Jesper, hope you don't mind

It's okay. Sounds much better

[=[VnB]=BM*]

Personally I think that the throwing speed of the handball from bball map is too fast, ppl can throw across almost the whole field easily. I think the weight of the ball should be made a bit heavier so that it cannot get thrown miles over the heads of all players and land near the enemy keeper. That wouldn't be so much in the sense of a teamplay.

That's why I took a playerhead as an example, the ball in that dm-bball map doesn't work that well as a simple head. Editing a random head should work perfect.

Sure thing with the autopickup. A non-automatic pickupaction would simply take too long for a fluently game. How does autopickup work exactly?

I think it will automaticly pickup the weapon (in this case head/ball) if it touches. So basically you can even catch a flying object in the air, if I'm right. Not quite sure about that ;D

There is nothing to be done against a keeper when he decides to let the ball pass into his own goal on purpose. The good point is that the keeper gets the blame from his team for his stupidity ;D and after each goal (as you stated before) keepers are anyway chosen again randomly anew.

Read my previous post, maybe that pointsystem will stimulate people to take the game serious. If even that doesn't work a votingsystem will help kicking idiots that try to fuck up the game.

There is one point that is also important to talk about. How about the the sidelines. If a player throws the ball across (north/south) sideline the other team should get the handball and begin with the throw-in. During that throw-in action the enemy team is not allowed to step over the outline from where the ball will be threwn into the field again...

This will be a bad idea. I'll make invisible walls around the field so the ball can't possibly get out, and players can't get out of the field. The ball will bounce back as soon as you try.

[jesperrr]

Read my previous post, maybe that pointsystem will stimulate people to take the game serious. If even that doesn't work a votingsystem will help kicking idiots that try to fuck up the game.

I've read your second post right after I had written my last post

Talking about the point system, it's good indeed that you come up with another idea but I don't think its efforts will be necessary and thinking more about it I have come to the conclusion that it is not beneficial for the teamplay, because even if the participants received such scoring points for good teamplay, they still wouldn't really care about those points, as they don't affect the real match result anyway, just a system to determine the new goalkeeper.
Moreover not every player dislikes being the new keeper, so that point system could act in just the opposite way as it was intended in your thoughts. It may even force some players that prefer to be the keeper to lame the teamplay. (Sometimes I love to be the keeper, no joke:-))

Let's better stick to the first idea that the keeper will simply be randomly chosen after each new goal. It would surely create less laming without the inclusion of a point system and less work for mundas, too.

If people are still laming around then you can use your method with the voting system ofc

I'll make invisible walls around the field so the ball can't possibly get out, and players can't get out of the field. The ball will bounce back as soon as you try.

That's just an even better idea than mine because it would be much simpler to transcribe for mundas than adding complex functions like "throw-in" which might take even more time to make a mod.

[anvil]

Apr 25, 2011 17:55:59 GMT 1 jesperrr said:

If people are still laming around then you can use your method with the voting system ofc

Instead of kicking the player he/she could be send into a penalty-box for an amount of time.

[mundas]

it is important that the rules are decided before i start doing anything. you guys should make a list of simple game rules, followed by what happens when certain events happen: players joining during the match, uneven number of players, etc.

it is important to think of the unexpected. for example: what happens if a team decides to sabotage the game by hiding the ball it in a corner and blocking it?

once this is boiled down and everyone agrees on it (im not making 2 versions) let me know on msn and i will get to work when i find the time.

[shexpeare]

Hehe. This could be fun.

All rules has to decided first, as Mund said. I belive that might be more complicated than it sounds like. Some rules can give side effects that you don't think of before you actually play it. My suggestion is to keep it as simple as possible. But I'm sure you guys have a clearer picture of it all than I have, so maybe it's just me.

It would be nice if you could summarize all rules you agreed on in one post. And then keep updating it with new ideas as they come along. Much easier to get an overview that way.

[jesperrr]

Simplicity is the language of understanding:-) It's true^^ It is surely hard to fulfill this MOD, so keeping it as simple as possible by avoiding deeper complexities is the way to go indeed.

Me and BM have worked out a word document summerizing all our thoughts about the MOD, thinking also about the "What if..." questions (details). BM wrote most of the rules. I wrote just the introduction, added a few more notes and corrected/added some grammar. BM has send the version to mund alrdy... Let's see how all this will develop...

I have to be honest. I'm not the tech brain that at last will bring this MOD to life as I don't rly understand anything about mapping and modding etc^^ . Respect for mundas and those tech freaks out there. But if you need me for some translations into english or such stuff just feel free to ask me. :-)

[mundas]

just a little update on this - i havent forgotten about it ))
i started making the basic classes and havent encountered any technical problems yet, the mod should be pretty straightforward to make (the way it looks at the moment). i can't give any release dates but its in the works.

[=[VnB]=BM*]

Sounds great.

I've made a map that looks pretty cool, most of the mappingwork is done there and I think making the zones won't be a problem (actually made one already). This might also get usefull in a later stage to test some of the scripts.

EDIT: All rules are already decided, I'll post the word-document jesper mentioned in a new post later. We've decided to change a few plans so I still need to write those down, I think it's a good idea to post it so other people can add problems that might occur that we didn't thought of before.

[=[VnB]=Wrath]

I like the idea. Sounds like fun. A few spontaneous thoughts:

- Will an admin be able to tweak certain settings like..

the duration of the ballcarrier timelimit? The mass of the ball? The scorelimit and timelimit of the game? Maxplayers? Movespeed (read below)? And more?


- What if the ballcarrier had slower movespeed, as in capture the torch?

It would make it easier for the defending team to approach the ballcarrier and it would force situations where passing is crucial to avoid losing the ball to the other team. This way you will have a fluid "teamplay enhancer" - which means that in situations where opponents are far away you won't need to pass as often (which is when a timelimit might come in handy to encourage teamplay), but in situations where the opponents are in close quarters (like goal shots) it's crucial to pass often. Ramps up the instensity of the game.

And it makes sense since you can't dribble a ball at top speed. I think it would be difficult to come up with a ballcarrier timelimit that works as good in both slower, less intense moments and in the frantic goal opportunities.

- Adding features that improve the overall feel and enjoyment of the game:

(Perhaps this point is better left for the latter part of mod development when you have a working, playable mod.)

* Having a distinctive look for players and keepers (either through custom made skins or "color tweaks" to in-game models, to lessen download size)

* Using custom sounds that enhance the feel of the game (crowds cheering after a goal, announcer type commentary, etc)

* Building upon BM's point system, a great feature would be a statistics tracker with an end-game awards system. Players could get simple achievements for their contributions. I.e. awards for the keeper with the most saves, the player with the most passes, the player with the most goals scored, the player with the most interceptions, etc.
[An overly ambitious project would be to add a website dedicated to keeping track of stats (like shex had for his dm/tdm servers) and achievements for each player]

[Trouble*]

Wrath! get your ass in-game sometimes

[mundas]

I like the idea. Sounds like fun. A few spontaneous thoughts:

- Will an admin be able to tweak certain settings like..


the duration of the ballcarrier timelimit? The mass of the ball? The scorelimit and timelimit of the game? Maxplayers? Movespeed (read below)? And more?

-yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes


- What if the ballcarrier had slower movespeed, as in capture the torch?

-will probably make the ball carrier too helpless. it will put more emphasis on team play, but we all know how team games work - the team with the fewer noobs wins. this will strangthen that effect.



(Perhaps this point is better left for the latter part of mod development when you have a working, playable mod.)

* Having a distinctive look for players and keepers (either through custom made skins or "color tweaks" to in-game models, to lessen download size)

-theres no way im making tens of classes just for custom skins. i can change skelmesh and skeletals "on the fly", however that is prone to crashings. the mod shows peoples names above their head, thats should be enough for identifying everyone.

* Using custom sounds that enhance the feel of the game (crowds cheering after a goal, announcer type commentary, etc)

-i have SOME custom sounds already, but im always looking, so if you have somehting useable, send over.

* Building upon BM's point system, a great feature would be a statistics tracker with an end-game awards system. Players could get simple achievements for their contributions. I.e. awards for the keeper with the most saves, the player with the most passes, the player with the most goals scored, the player with the most interceptions, etc.
[An overly ambitious project would be to add a website dedicated to keeping track of stats (like shex had for his dm/tdm servers) and achievements for each player]

-yeah i have the scoreboard prepared for that, although im not sure its a good idea. showing goals encourages egostic playing. i also wanted to log passes and keeper saves but that proves fairly difficult at the moment.